Update on the Marine Nationale: The answers from the Manufacture.

May 19, 2011,14:03 PM
 


Sadly, there is no trace of this watch in the registers.

The Heritage Gallery gave me the following informations:

1/. The Reference of the watch is E 165, and from its case number, it can be said that the case was made in 1962.

2/ There are no informations about a " E 165 " housing a Cal 478 BWSBr, and the movement should be the Cal 478, the same Cal than the one housed in the SHOM, and produced from 1945 to 1965.

3/ The consequence is that the Manufacture won't deliver a certificate on this watch for the reason mentionned above.

I'm still looking for some informations about the remaing Cal 478 BWSBr as we know that 2500 were made, while only 1300 Geophysic were produced.

Of course, I will keep you updated.

Best,

Nicolas.


More posts: Geophysic

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Jaeger-LeCoultre Service Central Hydrographique de la Marine Nationale.

 
 By: amanico : May 18th, 2011-01:02
You certainly remember than some months ago, I wrote something about the SHOM, a post which can be read here, for the most curious of us: jlc.watchprosite.com We had the pleasure to discover the Ref 159, housing a reliable and accurate Cal P 478 which was...  

Fantastic post ...

 
 By: p@trice : May 18th, 2011-03:15
...Fantastic story, fantastic watch with awesome cal. P 478 / BWSBr. A Jaeger Lecoultre between ... Thanks for sharing Nicolas Best Patrice...  

nice pic!

 
 By: playtime : May 18th, 2011-18:53

Very enjoyable post Nicolas !

 
 By: bimbeano : May 18th, 2011-03:28
Maybe Some cursing from my Side ? It would be great to have a seethru caseback ( don't shoot me). This is à movement to be shown! What i also like about this story is the fact that i am not the only one for once not knowing the exact story . Allez ! ... 

Can't get enough

 
 By: sancerre : May 18th, 2011-03:40
I have an enormous soft spot for these charming tool watches. They exude a warm feeling, asking to be taken on a walk in the forest, or curled up with a good book next to the fire. This whole vintage thing is a potential disaster for our bank account - ev... 

You've excelled yourself with this one, Nico

 
 By: BDLJ : May 18th, 2011-03:52
40000+ posts and still coming out with posts like this. The SHOM is magic, but this caseback with the anchor...and the movement it conceals...

Thanks for the introduction

 
 By: nilomis : May 18th, 2011-04:14
Nicolas, You keep educating all of us with those introductions to the wonders of JLC. Send more, please. Cheers

bravo nico, belle acquisition historique cette jlc ;)

 
 By: georgeszaslavsky : May 18th, 2011-04:33
Mais dis moi si mes souvenirs sont bons n'était ce pas celle qui était en vente à drouot???? Désolé si ma question est naive. cdlt georges

No, it wasn't sold at Drouot, but it will be, at the end of this month.

 
 By: amanico : May 20th, 2011-13:51
And not mine, either... Best, Nicolas. This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-05-20 13:51:38

Nice work, Nic.

 
 By: Davo : May 18th, 2011-04:41
Quite an interesting read. Appreciate the knowledge. Hat's off to you again!

very cool post Nico.

 
 By: MattS : May 18th, 2011-05:42
Lets just hope this piece finds the correct home, for sure it would deserve to go to a collector with the appropriate level of knowledge and taste...like...follow my thoughts... Would be a nice complement to some other marine nationale history pieces... M... 

So, my question is...

 
 By: watchme : May 18th, 2011-06:01
a special request, or were there extra movements lying around, unused, in the factory, and JLC decided to give them to this extraordinary customer? -Dean

I have two pists, for the moment...

 
 By: amanico : May 20th, 2011-13:59
Which can be cumulative, and not alternative: OR JLC provided the difference ( 1200 movements ) to VC for their Chronometre Royal. OR JLC kept some of them to house them in some unusual cases, such as this one, and a few others ( See Marv's answer ). OR B... 

Fascinating

 
 By: Bretta : May 18th, 2011-08:03
Absolutely fascinating, in all my years of looking at / collecting military watches I had no idea that these even existed. Thank you for a fantastic post and spreading the knowledge. kindest regards Bretta

One more order for the

 
 By: DaMctosh : May 18th, 2011-08:50
Surprise du Chef please! Great post and very interesting revelation. Thanks for this Nicolas. Very enjoyable read. This message has been edited by damien on 2011-05-18 08:52:03

you have done it again

 
 By: foowy : May 18th, 2011-09:18
An excellent mystery to keep us intrigued till the end. with more questions asked at the end....will there be a sequel to this mystery. We can only wait and see. thanks Nicholas

Love reading your reviews/history lessons!

 
 By: ocwatching : May 18th, 2011-11:01
Love the little twist and turns in the details of the piece. And like a good lawyer, you layout your arguments in an logical manner. These vintage military pieces are just full of history. I bet it was most fun for you to do the research and the writing a... 

Nicolas, you are the Master Chef!

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : May 18th, 2011-12:43
What a post and what a watch, my friend! Both are master pieces! Love these kinds of historical posts with a lot of facts and some details unknown, waiting to be discovered and to feed our dreams! Movement made in 1959… Watch delivered to the Marine...  

Very interesting read!

 
 By: sw-rick : May 18th, 2011-12:57
The vintage passion on this forum, especially in the guise of Mr. Nick himself, is really one of the reasons that it is a pure pleasure to return here. I am already in hot pursuit of a Mark 11 so this timing is just perfect. I already like the SHOM a lot,... 

Could'nt finish today without saying .. What a magnificent post !!

 
 By: hs111 : May 18th, 2011-16:05
Well - Quel surprise .. Touché !! - As I had the privilege to learn (and now see) something about the 'regular' SHOM, which already had caught eye and senses, apart from the intellectual twists of the story connected to it, this caught me by addition... 

another wonderful post:)

 
 By: playtime : May 18th, 2011-18:52
as always, wonderful back story that provides a historical context that illuminates the brand as a whole. jason

On the vintage car market we call that....

 
 By: Dje : May 18th, 2011-22:01
Hi, On the vintage car market we call that an old barn find! This watch is indeed extraordinary. It will give us the motivation to open many old pieces.... Thank you Nicolas. Dje

Wonderful article Nico

 
 By: Ubik : May 19th, 2011-06:40
A fascinating watch and a tale well beautifully told. The French military certainly had a great eye for their watches during these years - Breguet, JLC, Blancpain, Tudor. A bygone era for sure in the age of G-Shocks.

That could be an interesting thema of collection ...

 
 By: amanico : May 20th, 2011-14:32
Add some Airain, Auricoste, Vixa... Hmmm, some bad ideas, here... Best, my friend. nicolas.

Update on the Marine Nationale: The answers from the Manufacture.

 
 By: amanico : May 19th, 2011-14:03
Sadly, there is no trace of this watch in the registers. The Heritage Gallery gave me the following informations: 1/. The Reference of the watch is E 165, and from its case number, it can be said that the case was made in 1962. 2/ There are no information... 

Thank you for the update, Nicolas!

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : May 19th, 2011-14:24
The plot thickens… It would be really interesting to know how this happened..! Best Blomman

Nothing is sure, my friend.

 
 By: amanico : May 19th, 2011-14:27
Only hypothesis... I'm trying to eliminate some of thems, though. Will keep you updated as soon I find some hints. Best, Nicolas

You are a true Sherlock Holmes, my friend! :) [nt]

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : May 19th, 2011-14:39
No message body

Occupational hazard?

 
 By: ocwatching : May 19th, 2011-15:06
and good for us...keep it up counselor!

Incomplete archives

 
 By: Marv : May 19th, 2011-16:50
I was sure that the Surprise du Chef would have this iodized savour! Thank you for this great post! And I am also not surprised by the answer you got from JLC regarding the remaining cal 478 BWSBr. What a pity that the JLC archives have so many blanks in ...  

Do you have the case number of this E 163, Marv?

 
 By: amanico : May 20th, 2011-01:05
It would be interesting to know it and to check if, in this case, too, there is an " anachronism ". Yes, it is a pity that there are some important " holes " in the JLC archives, but on another side, it stimulates us in the search of the Truth... Best, my... 

James watch and another MN SCH...

 
 By: Ilja : December 5th, 2011-07:25
A bit more of information about James Dowlings watch: He bought the watch from me many years ago, I found it in Italy. Actually I found a second of this typ in Italy as well. Also a MN SCH is in my collection for many years now, it bears the case serial 9... 

Very interesting, Ilja.

 
 By: amanico : December 5th, 2011-07:46
Can you confirm me it housed a Geophysic movement, and which is the movement number, please? It is very interesting! Best, Ilja. Nicolas. This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-12-05 07:46:51

as requested

 
 By: Ilja : December 6th, 2011-08:01
Off course I can confirm it houses a P478BWSbr # 1373124 A heart touching story how it came in my possession... A nice person from Paris once told me about his MN LeCoultre, guess that was in 2001, I asked him to show it to me, next watch show in Cologne ... 

potentially another candidate

 
 By: Clavi : December 6th, 2011-08:57
A few weeks ago, another of these P478BWSbr calibers surfaced on eBay, in the form of a naked movement. The fact that it doesn't have the stop-lever, and also that it was sold from a place very close to a Marine National base (Brest) makes me believe it m...  

Clavi and Ilja - thank you for the info!

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : December 6th, 2011-12:31
Very interesting and a great story! Best Blomman

Love that movement

 
 By: Mostel : May 19th, 2011-15:11
The dial is like sitting by a fire on a fall night... waaaaaaaarm. Another impossible watch in impossible condition! Shudder, sigh, drool.

Wow what a post, Nico!

 
 By: ChristianDK : May 20th, 2011-00:55
You really put a dent in the knowledge of vintage JLC. A Fantastic post Hercule Poirot... And a stunning watch! The uy, who wins the auction, gets a very special watch. Im enjoying my little watch so much, it expanded what I thought I liked and what I can... 

Fantastic post. Read through it and didn't understand a thing...

 
 By: Echi : May 20th, 2011-02:33
but to say that I didn't enjoy it would be tremendously inaccurate i sometimes wonder if it would make sense to have a JLC family tree of movements and cases and dials just so we can attempt to grasp its varied and colorful history. amazing. thanks, nico.... 

very interesting read...

 
 By: FanFrancisco : May 22nd, 2011-09:42
... wonderful post that educated me a lot. ... if we don't open the caseback, we would never be known it houses such beautiful caliber! i am tended to believe this watch must be tailored for somehow. have you checked with JLC about this watch? stefan

Yes, I got an answer from the Manufacture, which I posted above.

 
 By: amanico : May 22nd, 2011-09:47
Here is the link, my friend: jlc.watchprosite.com Yes, I think that at the moment, the Marine Nationale asked for one of the most accurate moment JLC had, and that it is possible that JLC housed the Geophysic movement in this E 165. I don't see the intere... 

thanks, saw that after sending my reply...

 
 By: FanFrancisco : May 22nd, 2011-09:51
... agreed. don't see any strong reason to make such fake stuff to fool us by the way, any more other interesting watches showing at that upcoming auction? thanks, stefan

Yes ...

 
 By: amanico : May 22nd, 2011-09:56
There is a very nice Reverso Vintage, Seconde Centrale, with an impeccable dial, and some other marvels, among them, a SHOM... Google Millon et Associés, and there is an on line catalog on the auction, which will be held in Paris on the 27th of May... Nex... 

Hmmm.. Reverso Seconde Centrale.. SHOM.. Pause !! ..

 
 By: hs111 : May 22nd, 2011-10:11
Have to refrain and restrain myself.. really ! - Good for me that I left that city of temptations and that I will have a full professional schedule this week.. ( Am sure, those will go pretty high.. - might be interesting to follow the bidding .. :-o) No,... 

The Reverso vintage is indeed a beauty!

 
 By: Marv : May 22nd, 2011-10:20
The model is attractive: black dial and sweep second. And the condition seems excellent. Here is a photo taken from the auction on-line catalog....  

OMG .. How good does it get .. Great piece !

 
 By: hs111 : May 22nd, 2011-10:28
Thanks, Marv ! .. - for making it even harder to refrain, butcurrently other things in the pipeline.. Nevertheless, enjoyable ! best, hs

Exactly, Marv... This one seems in excellent condition, with a superb dial. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : May 22nd, 2011-10:35
No message body This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-05-22 10:38:12

Help.. All you need is help .. And/ or a strong will ! ;-)

 
 By: hs111 : May 22nd, 2011-11:03
With a little help of your friends .. Much is possible, that I learned with pleasure. - but you have to be aware of the jungle of temptations.. Thus, I will stay with my Sunday evening cup of tea ( and stay away from coffee, for the moment), and rather wo... 

:) I can understand that.

 
 By: amanico : May 23rd, 2011-07:25
You already have some " heavy " plans in your head, so first focus on them, then we'll see. Wise words, my friend. Best, Nicolas.

How true.. And despite that, a very nice bonus against the odds! :))

 
 By: hs111 : May 23rd, 2011-07:54
Well- you said it , even more wisely if I remember correctly : It all comes down to .. Priorities and .. Maturation .. That says it all for me, really , Very well put, my friend ! On a second joyful note, however, despite all this happy ;-) restraint for ... 

Somehow .. struggling a bit for good pics .. those curves ! :)

 
 By: hs111 : May 23rd, 2011-09:48
That's a property of black beauties, apparently .. But I of course have one from the iPhone & in the pot of fulfillment ! All so nice - Soon ! .. Thanks for a little patience, (lots to do in the office,also) Best, as always hs. )