An interesting detail on the Deep Sea Alarm US dial.

Dec 09, 2021,23:23 PM
 

We saw some dials coming with luminous material covering the 5 minutes indexes on the Deep Sea Alarm dials, sometimes, while, most of the time, the indexes came without luminous material at all.

Here we are talking of the US version, not the european, to be clear.

Here is, for example, a stunning new old stock specimen. The dial comes without luminous markers:



Mine is clearly in the same vein:



Or this one, sold during a famous auction, in Nov 2011:



Now, the dial with the luminous markers, which belongs to Blomman, now, if I am correct:



For years and years, I wondered if those indexes weren't relumed, to tell the truth, as I saw way much more no luminous dials.

I started to seach in my archives what informations I had on the Deep Sea Alarm, and I found nothing about the US dial.

I just found some interesting informations about different dates:

11th of February 1959: 1st drawing of the Deep Sea Alarm case.

12th of February 1960: 1st drawing of the Deep Sea Alarm dial ( JLC, hence European version, not US ), ref 8239 ( Dial Reference, to be clear ).

Dates of production: From 1959 to 1962. 500 were made in 1959, 1 in 1962, on a total of 1061 watches.

Which means that the 500 first Deep Sea Alarm had an US dial ( Lecoultre ), since the first drawing of the European dial was made in... 1960!

Which means that the 561 other DSAs, produced between 1960 and 1962 were certainly US and European, without any further precision on their respective quantity, but we can guess that a maximum of one third were European, which explains the fact that we really don't often see the Jaeger Lecoultre version.

As I found nothing on the US dial, I asked to the Manufacture if they had something in their archives, and the answer was... Yes... And No.

No, because they don't have any document nor drawing mentionning the US dial.

Yes, because they found... A New Old Stock Dial!

I asked them to put it aside for me to take some pictures during my next visit, and that is what they did!

Here, in " avant première " for your eyes, the new old stock DSA Lecoultre dial:



2 interesting details:

- An information: the 5 minutes indexes are... Luminous!

It is not clearly obvious on the photo, but I have taken it in high resolution, and they are, without any doubt. And not relumed.

- A surprise: The outer part of the dial is grey, when normally, when you refer to the pictures I posted above, it is white.

The luminous in question seems to be tritium, as it is very clear.

So, it seems that these dials were destined to the last years of the production, somewhere between 1961 and 1962, which corresponds to the era where the Manufactures opted for tritium instead of radium.

A fact which can also explain that, to differenciate the radium from the tritium, the outer part of the dial is not of the same color. Both being signed Swiss made, by the way.

One fact: the DSA US dials came, sometimes, with luminous indexes, with the white outer parts, or with the grey, as shown on Blomman's DSA, and on this new old stock dial.

Some guesses about the outer parts, and the meaning of the different colors.

The verso part of the dial shows two things:

The dials of the DSAs come with feet.

They are signed Singer, which is the name of the dial manufacturer, which is a confirmation on an already known detail.



Hoping that it will help you to better know the Deep Sea Alarm, and that it may be of some help if you ever find one,

Best.

Nicolas


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Finally! Thank you! ;)

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : June 11th, 2013-00:53
Great information, my friend! Thank you! :) Will post my thoughts on the topic tonight when at home. BTW, fun detail that you used one of the first photos I posted of my DSA. Since then she has gone thru a "make over" - will post new pics... Over even bet... 

After SPA treatment...

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : June 11th, 2013-10:05
Can you spot the changes...? :) My watchmaker is a true artist! :) Best Blomman ...  

He cleaned the dial ( the lume of the indexes? ) + the indexes of the insert, +

 
 By: amanico : June 11th, 2013-12:11
The lume of the hands? Wow, it looks really cleaner! Best, Nicolas.

That IS very nice info, to complement knowledge, my friend.. AND..

 
 By: hs111 : June 11th, 2013-02:26
.. Have annotated this post to my DSA's series bookmarks. Although, at least at present still, for me it is "hypothetical and theoretical " knowledge, as I'm a humble No- have.. Still, as the happy owner of the 2 Tributes, it really complements informatio... 

Well, hs, the TT DSAs are the next best thing after the elusive Vintages!

 
 By: amanico : June 11th, 2013-12:06
Hard to find, almost not in super condition, the quest for the vinage may turn to the nightmare, my friend. Enjoy the real world! All the best, Nicolas

Yes, I will enjoy the reachable sisters.. Yet, sometimes..

 
 By: hs111 : June 11th, 2013-23:23
It's interesting to follow some riddles, with admiration and curiosity .. .. Maybe just if looking into an abyss. To concur with your advice, I AM veeery happy with my 2 TT's DSA, also reflection of friendship and fulfilled desire, (which thus has found s... 

The DSAs, TT or not, are pure objects of passion, love and desire. Agreed.

 
 By: amanico : June 11th, 2013-23:29
See you soon, my friend! All th best, nicolas.

Interesting topic

 
 By: Clavi : June 11th, 2013-08:05
I have never paid attention to this detail either. To add further to the confusion, 2 additional good pictures of 2 other watches: - Close-up on the dial of my (ex) DSA, dated 1959 by JLC at the time (I wouldn't be 100% sure though, and I never looked at ...  

At the contrary, this is a confirmation of our common investigation.

 
 By: amanico : June 11th, 2013-12:13
The 2 dials existed. Now the reason why they both existed is another story! Best, Nicolas

very interesting observations...

 
 By: FanFrancisco : June 11th, 2013-08:54
... learnt something new and interesting again, always enjoyed reading the post of this kind. collecting vintage watches always make us so much fun. thanks for sharing, Nico. stefan

You think you know all about a watch ,and Dang! You learn something new.

 
 By: amanico : June 11th, 2013-12:15
That is the Beauty of the vintage world. you learn Humility. Thanks for viewing, my friend. Nicolas

It is interesting to see - all dials without lume...

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : June 11th, 2013-10:01
Is much whiter on the five minute marks than on the outer part of the dial. You can clearly see the patina develops differently on the five minute marks than on the outer part. Almost as if the 5-min marks been treated with some special coating to make th...  

Interesting questions, Blomman.

 
 By: amanico : June 11th, 2013-12:23
The question to know why the two dials existed remains unanswered. About Tritium or Radium; my guess is that both existed. You have to keep in mind that at this time, things turned fast about the material used for the luminous parts of the dial. This was ... 

interesting investigation...

 
 By: karmin : June 12th, 2013-01:36
Thanks Nicolas for this information : it seems obvious now that two dials co-existed, but I had never taken few minutes to notice it before ... Would you mind if I develop the list of open questions and also bring in some confusion ;-) ? On my own DSA, wh...  

Water, heat, humidity can explain that, Karmin.

 
 By: amanico : June 12th, 2013-07:49
I saw several DSA US or Europe developing a nice brown / chocolate patina on the dial ( not the alarm disc ). It may also be the varnish used on these dials. Sometimes, it is surprising, like on this one: It is more oftn more sublte though. Best, Nicolas...  

She is a stunner

 
 By: flamenco : June 12th, 2013-08:24
Nice brown hue. Is this from a recent auction?

Sometimes you have good posts

 
 By: Asimut : June 13th, 2013-03:47
keep it up ;-) Hope all is well padre. Asi

My input here Nicolas

 
 By: terenceho : June 19th, 2013-07:16
As per my non-professional photo by myself, I see no lume for my DSA and fairly white outer areas of the dial. Not sure if I help. ...  

Wonderful pair! :) [nt]

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : June 19th, 2013-13:25

Thanks for this very interesting article, Nicolas.

 
 By: ztirual : October 8th, 2014-14:41
It truly deserves to come back on the top of the pile...

A Very Interesting Post, And I Am Amazed By...

 
 By: elliot55 : October 8th, 2014-17:56
... how this iconic piece takes on such a different look and feel with a strap instead of bracelet. The "jubilee" bracelet shot makes the watch look kind of dull. But the shots of yours with the black strap really make the watch pop. Tres magnifique, mons... 

Thank you, Cher Ami. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : October 8th, 2014-22:09

My pleasure, my good friend.

 
 By: amanico : December 10th, 2021-07:39

Really interesting amicu,

 
 By: Joker2a : December 10th, 2021-06:34
thank you for sharing these new investigations for this fantastic model!

Fantastic article, my friend!

 
 By: Watcholic_id : December 10th, 2021-11:18
really enjoy reading this. and the NOS dial is epic! thanks for sharing it here Nico cheers

A pleasure, my friend.

 
 By: amanico : December 10th, 2021-17:22