Freeman
15
Absolutely, you make some very good points
Absolutely, you make some very good points and I am in no way doubting JLC's innovations; they have been among some of the most prolific innovators of the watch world.
In some ways I think they have fallen victim to (1) their pricing which is really very good for getting bang for your buck, but not always the best for promoting a veblen good, and (2) their production numbers and distribution. Making parts for other watch manufacturers is a double edge sword. Yes it is a good way to generate revenue but it also cheapens that product by not keeping it exclusive. Let me explain.
If Lange were to take the Datograph movement and start selling it like the Valjoux 7750 there would be uproar, it would do massive damage to the brand. JLC has fallen victim to that slightly. Of course I am not suggesting JLC are producing movements as common as the 7750, but the principle remains the same.
The second issue I have is the finishing. Perhaps I am being unfair in comparing JLC to Lange (who arguably have the best finishing of any brand) but looking at the two, even without a loupe, you can pick out short falls with the JLC which is often reflected in the pricing.
But you are right and I don't want to take anything away from JLC's amazing history and the fact that they remain one of the few companies who are pushing forward innovation. Come to think of it, I think it is the Richemont group companies who are doing the most for horology nowadays.
Perhaps it is better that this thread should be asking where in the top watch companies people would place Patek, because each bring something different to the table.
The world best watch brand? Never. One of the finest, maybe.
So, you see, I still didn't see the light... Best, Nicolas
Nicolas! mon ami, you have not seen the light???
Aie, aie, aie!! Caramba! Cheers Francois from Down Under
The jury is still out…
I am waiting for Patek to fix my brand new but faulty annual calendar before answering. Cheers Stan
This thread is bound to get some traffic.
I did, at one time, believe Patek was at the apex of the industry ... the cat's meow. I truly felt no other brand could do what Patek did, no one built a watch to the level of Patek Philippe ... but that was thirty-three years ago and I was biased because...
Very much in accord with your thoughts whit!....
and there is going to be a lot of traffic....light!!! Cheers Francois from Down Under
A very interesting comment.....
.....you state that it was during a factory visit and at lunch that you discovered that you felt that Patek was the best watch manufacturer. What happened over this very short period (1 day?) that led you to think that?
Yep....
.....for it to be a "road to damascus" type of experience....i would really like to hear what happened....what Aussie saw, what was said etc etc
Not sure about "the road to Damascus" thing ......
right now! Well, perhaps with more salad;) Cheers Francois from Down Under
Lange gets my vote
They so make a fine watch. They so have a rich and stories history. But in the modern age I think Lange rivals PP in terms of innovation and craftsmanship.
"hockey pucks"
Well, some like it that way. For sure it doesn´t really fit to the approach of classical Swiss watchmaking, but they are German ... :-) Still there are quite a few Swiss Made hockey pucks, as well. Oliver
Yes, of course, there are made especially for....
people with poor eyesight, like myopia, these kind of things;) Cheers Francois from Down Under
Hockey pucks? Aren't hockey pucks these black....
round, thick and heavy coaster like thingies that hockey players push around on an ice rink? Didn't get it, I must be myopic! Cheers Francois from Down Under
True
Lange watches are big and tall. Hamburgers, hockey pucks, macaroons...not something one could comfortably wear on your wrist and under a sleeve. There may be beautiful craftsmanship and innovative design but big and bulky wins no prizes. These are, after ...
Yup, no s/s nor rubber straps watches.
That is the reasons why I put Lange over PP, plus only about 8000 pieces per yr. vs 30,000 pieces for PP mechanical watches.
In current times...
They have competition, but my visits to the museum and salon (2nd floor) on Saturday wowed me. Most of the modern high complications are never seen but in photos, but to see them all in one place was mind blowing. ...
Hi Dave, for me to see Patek Philippe Museum....
in Geneva is also mind blowing!! ........ as it should read Musee Patek Philippe!!! Cheers Francois from Down Under
"world's best"
What means best to you? What are the defined criterias behind that statement? Is it based on one point of view or several? ... For me there is nothing like a best brand, because I don´t like that kind of generalizations. It is for marketing people and "fo...
Ooops! I am very late! I have not yet realised......
Did I miss something? When and where was this announced? It is a very good and prestigious brand which used to make delightfully nice, elegant and extremely well executed time-pieces. Once upon a time. Cheers Francois from Down Under
Maybe...once upon a time
They might have been 15 years ago but their lack of innovation and their constant re-hash of old designs and concepts has left them in Lange's wake.
Aah yes Freeman, agree and without forgetting....
Jaeger LeCoultre in that ligue and some Independents as I am sure someone will remind me that Patek Philippe is, after all, an Independent;) Cheers Francois from Down Under
Jaeger is great but I am not sure I would put them in the group of the 'best'.
They have no doubt produced some amazing watches (the gyro's spring to mind) and their Reverso's are absolute classics, but I am not sure they could be defined as 'best' in terms of quality. F.P Journe is also producing some incredible stuff, but they hav...
"it was Philippe Dufour who said"
Yes, but that was how many years ago?! By the way: Freeman, welcome at PuristSPro! Just in case, have you seen our (new!) "New Members" forum? Oliver
8 months
He may have said it years ago but he re-asserted the claim 8 months ago in a video he did for Hodinkee.
You surprise me Freeman and it's always good to be....
surprised;) The fact that you would not put JLC in the top ligue or the group of the "best" is surprising to me. Of course I am not arguing about any Brand been the "best" because it is so subjective as to not possibly been realistic. Yes, I agree with yo...
Absolutely, you make some very good points
Absolutely, you make some very good points and I am in no way doubting JLC's innovations; they have been among some of the most prolific innovators of the watch world. In some ways I think they have fallen victim to (1) their pricing which is really very ...
Thank you for your thoughtful reply Freeman. I was....
actually thinking the same. The Richemont Group is the one leading innovation today and I wouldn't be surprised to see exquisite and novel pieces coming out from Montblanc, they already have an marvellous movement (Minerva) and a beautiful finish which is...
When is something 'the best'?
I like Patek very much, but I also dislike the 'best' label that most people slam on it, without them providing their reason(s). I also dislike people who reason the other way around; Patek is better, because all Lange watches are hockey pucks. You can't ...
Maybe the top 3 or 4 brands
In many respects this is true. It is very difficult to say something is the best, but then human's have been doing it since the start of time (pun not intended). There are many companies that have produced great things. Jaeger/Journe/Patek/Lange/AP/Bregue...
Best? Not sure about that....
How do you measure best? Patek is not the most valuable watch brand (Rolex is), they no longer makes the most complicated watches out there, nor the most creative. But they are the king of the auction market, I give you that. However, with that said, they...
When i was leaving home with something else on my wrist...
.... and turned back to swap watches and put a patek on. Then when i got bored of most of my watches from other brands, and ended up selling them to build my patek collection. When the next piece was haunting me at night...etc... i realized that brand is ...
I actually have proof that it is the best watch brand ...
Mr. Stern told be himself over lunch. lol
That won't stand in the court...
... of purist pro fans. It might be judged as too subjective. But you sure got a good sense of humor :) P.s: You should have asked him about the Jay Leno chin of the new dial of the 5270G,... is it worthy of the best brand of the world ;)
Come on Fricks! Of course it would stand in the court....
and with the full bench! The jury been the Stern family, I cannot see how this statement could possibly not stand in the court:) Cheers Francois from Down Under
Well, then who can argue with this. Thank you Aussie....
for this inside, great scoop:) Cheers Francois from Down Under
Perception - ...is reality (?)
my take on this great question: Perception is reality! And I don't think many will argue that broad-based perception is that indeed Patek is the best watch brand...and therefore reality. And what Patek does so well is precisely managing perception: i.e. a...
One of the best no doubt...
It is hard to say that Patek is the "best". I would certainly put it at the top three or four... My list is as follows 1. Patek/Lange (I think they are really close or equal).... 2. Audemars Piguet 3. Vacheron 4. Rolex
analogy
I once read a wristwatch book with great analogies about great watches considered the "best". 1. Patek (the king)--royal, classic, steady, no need to be flashy or daring, the creme de la creme... The Old kings were once Breguet and Vacheron, but they did ...
How Do You Define "Best"?
There are several qualities that individually or in combination might justify describing a watch brand being described as "best". Some could be: 1) Technical superiority of the movement 2) Innovations in movement design and functions 3) Case design 4) Fin...
