A view on the Mark VII, aka Weems

May 25, 2009,12:36 PM
 



I / The Context:

Since the end of the 19th Century and the very early years of the XXth Century, Jaeger Lecoultre was the supplier of the Army, with some Torpedo Boat Chronometers ( For the French and the US Army, for example ).

But, if we have to talk about the very first wrist watch conceived for Pilots, so we have to consider the Mark VII so called Weems, conceived for the US Army, but also for the British Army, since 1940 till 1943, then replaced by the Mark VII without any bezel.

The name " Weems " comes from its inventor, the American Military Pilot Philip Van Horn Weems, who filed his system in July 23, 1935.

The Mark VII Weems:

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The Mark V II " No Weems " ( Credit Pic: Zaf Basha )

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This is a quitre rare watch, if we consider that around 5000 were produced, and only 1000 of them were " Weems ".

II / The watch:

- The Crowns:

It's impossible to not start with what makes the specificity of the Mark V II Weems: the 2 crowns, and more precisely the one located at " 4 " .

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This crown serves to lock or unlock the graduate bezel, with the main purpose to synchronize the time without having to set the hands of the watch.

Once you put the bezel at the right time, you lock it.

The crown is big enough to be manipulated even with Pilot gloves.

It is a bit bigger than the classic crown at " 3 " which serves to sert the hour and to wind the watch.

- The Bezel:

The 2nd particularity on this watch is the bezel, with its " 60 " painted in red, which is another hint of the importance of the synchronization for the Pilots, while the other engraved indexes are black.

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- The Case:

The proportions of the Mark VII Weems are enhancing its tool watch apsect:

A small case ( 33 mm ), and quite thick, with rough lugs, as you can see on this following pics:

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A strong look and character, indeed:

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The Plexy and the dial :

While the plexy is slightly domed on the American and English models, the dials bear some specificities.

The American model comes with a " Lecoultre " signed dial, while the English doesn't.

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While the British model comes without any signature, but, except this detail, it shares the same creamy dial, which contrats with the red " 12 ".

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- Case Back and Movement :

The Case Back is another particularity which allosw some distinction between the American and the British Weems.

The American is engraved " Property US Army Watch Navigator Hack Type A 11 " followed by the Serial number, and the number of the watch.

The very last ones didn't bare these engravings, like on mine, here, on the pic:

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The British too are engraved, but quite in the same way as the later Mark 11, + A crown, like this one:

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At the contrary of the later Mark 11, there is no dust cover in soft iron, to protect the Caliber 450 housed in the Mark VII.

On the american model, it is signed Lecoultre, while on the British, it bares the Jaeger Lecoultre Signature.

But this is exactly the same caliber, a 17 jewel manual wind, quite nicely finished:

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III / Thoughts:

The Weems offers the appeal of a Military watch: A watch with an obvious story behind, enhanced by the fact that ( and it's really part of the magic, with this military time keeper ) it is...66 years old!

The dial had a Life, with its patina, which are also and mostly wounds of war, of Life.

A bit like the strap which comes with, looking like it directly comes from the cockpit of a Mustang or a Spitfire...

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Then, it has an unbelievable look.

I was wondering if I would be able to live with such a small watch on the wrist, and yes, I can.

Because of its character, its strength.

Character and strenght, more than Elegance, IMO, but not less interesting.

Here are some pics I took, of the Mark V II side by side with the Mark XI:

2 different characters, looks:

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Now, you can compare the shape of the case and of the lugs ( a bit thinner and longer, on the Mark XI ), which gives more elegance to this last one, while the Mark V II is a bit more massive.

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Wearing it is a great pleasure, once you get used to its small size.

What is lost in size is gained in thickness, to ensure a nice presence on the wrist.

So you can wear it with a suit, to feel a bit like James Bond...

smile

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Or, if you want to be a Pilot ...With the mandatory leather flying jacket...

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Anyway, a really interesting watch, as the first Pilot Watch from Jaeger Lecoultre, lovely with its " bad boy " character, and pretty rare to find, too.

Another great repere in the JLC History.

Hope you'll enjoy,

Best.

Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-05-25 12:50:06 This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2009-05-29 08:03:39


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Since you have a JLC "Weems" ...

 
 By: bimbeano : May 25th, 2009-12:58
shouldn't you get the Longines too ? It' s a crazy watch Nicolas, in terms of history and proportions .... 33 mm, pretty thick and massive winding crown(s) . It looks awesome with the green strap. As for the WS ... hmmm... i like it with the leather jacke... 

As a coincidence, I recently saw a Longines Weems

 
 By: amanico : May 25th, 2009-13:13
And if this JLC Weems is pretty small, the Longines Weems looks even smaller. Only 1 mm difference between these 2 " cousins ", but it is really noticeable Smaller, and less thick, too. I prefer the JLC. Thanks for your input, my friend. Best, Nicolas

Lovely watch, great pix.

 
 By: JPSF : May 25th, 2009-13:06
When will JLC start to re-produce pilot watches? Any ideas? Best, Jean

You're absolutely right to ask, JPSF

 
 By: amanico : May 25th, 2009-13:17
As the Pilot watches are, with the Geophysic the very rare watches to not have a continuation in the modern JLC production. Due to their size ( 33mm for the Weems, 35mm for the Mark 11 and the WWW ), I doubt that JLC will re edit them. BUT, why not re int... 

JLC should offer pilot watches in order to

 
 By: JPSF : May 26th, 2009-10:26
complete range of JLC sport watches. I mean, replica or not. I want to be in the first line to get JLC pilot watches.

There are other unexplored fields to fill, indeed

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:24
Like the Geophysic, and these Pilot watches... But there are also very interesting developments taken from the Extrem Lab, the re edition of the Memovox, and so on. Yes, these Pilot are very appealing, and I would like to see them back to life, too! Best,... 

hopefully.....

 
 By: MiniCooper : May 27th, 2009-17:44
JLC is monitoring this forum so maybe are wishes will come true lol cheers

Once again...

 
 By: MiniCooper : May 25th, 2009-14:45
A great review my friend JLC should re interpret it cheers ps some days have gone by and you have yet to post a vintage FF- have you reached your limit?

My praises are joining yours, Pink Panther! Thanks for the nice words, my friend.

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:26
As for the FF, don't worry, I have some in reserve... Best, Nicolas

And I thought...

 
 By: MiniCooper : May 27th, 2009-17:45
that you promised that after two more you will stop..... Cheers my friend

In my opinion...

 
 By: nwp627 : May 25th, 2009-15:20
there is indeed a market for the reinterpretation of such a "bad-boy" pilots watch, albeit in a larger size. Again I thank you Nicolas for showing us these photos of watches that were and that could be again. (If we are to be so lucky!) N

A missing link which has to be filled, Neil...

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:30
Can't agree more with you! But a bigger size is not an esay thing as it may break the harmony of this watch. Not impossible, but difficult. Best, my friend. Nicolas

Nicolas, would the “extra” leather strap on the model with the red “12”...

 
 By: marcelo : May 25th, 2009-15:58
…have the purpose of protecting the users’ wrist from the huge “locking” crown? Marcelo

Certainly not, Marcelo

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:32
As the crown at 4 is not uncomfortable at all, so the wrist doesn't have to be protected. Therefore, I think ( not sure ) that the dotation strrap is the one monuted on my watch. Best, Marcelo. Nicolas

What a cool watch!!

 
 By: Mostel : May 25th, 2009-17:54
Enjoy.

Nice report, Nicolas!

 
 By: dxboon : May 25th, 2009-18:07
It's interesting how the design and layout of the Weems' dial, bezel, case, and lugs give it a much larger presence in general, and on the wrist, than its actual 33mm size would suggest. The overall spirit of the watch is one of strength and masculinity. ... 

Exactly, Daos

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:36
When I first saw it, I was saying to myself " wow, very cool, but way too small ". Then I tried it before decising anything, and once on my wrist, I had to admit ( once again ) ,that the small size was a very relative issue, as this watch has a great and ... 

Awesome review again N!

 
 By: matrix : May 25th, 2009-19:23
Were the hands on the Brit. version changed to blue or r they orig?! Thanks in advance and wear ur timekeeper in great health my friend, Matrix.

Great watch & review!

 
 By: Peter  : May 25th, 2009-21:09
Thks for sharing

Thank you, Peter!

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:40

a fine detailed review for a very collectible watch

 
 By: time2tic : May 25th, 2009-22:25
very high quality pictures to let us appreciate this interesting model NOw you only need a vintage plane to go with it

As for the Vintage plan, I have an idea... :)

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:45
As for the watch, yes, I think that these Vintage JLC Pilot are very underated, and that they are great collectible watches. In Terms of pleasure, I mean. Best, Time2tic! Nicolas

can you believe it?

 
 By: Bretta : May 26th, 2009-02:42
Such a beautiful watch and a very interesting post, thanks Nicolas... you know I like the vintage posts, particularly the military reviews. What is the general consensus on the cal.450? Was this one of their finer, simpler or tougher movements? Now... can...  

Weems

 
 By: Ilja : May 26th, 2009-05:56
Hi Bretta, What you got there is not really a Weems, this kind of watch is missing the 2nd crown devise (thread in case). Further it is missing the cut out area at the case top for the L-shaped locking device. My guess: This kind of watch is a pre-Weems a... 

Definitely recased

 
 By: Bretta : May 26th, 2009-07:40
Hi Ilja, Thanks for your insights but this is definitely not an original LeCoultre case, so I still believe it used to be a Weems. The current case was originally gold that has now worn off, the case backs says that it is "automatic" which is wrong as thi... 

Let me guess, Ilja....

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:50
You??? Best, Nicolas

well...

 
 By: Ilja : May 28th, 2009-11:16
Guess someone had to get them off the market. I just need the damn locking stuff, than I can call it the largest collection of LeCoultre Weems to be known. Lol 2 UK issued 1 US AC and 2 unsigned plus two case tops left. Have to admit the Weems is my all t... 

Aaah, Ilja, I love to read things like that! :)))

 
 By: amanico : May 28th, 2009-11:28
Well done, my friend. Just hope that you will be able to find the locking stuff! Can't wait for the group shot . Best, Nicolas

too lazy

 
 By: Ilja : May 28th, 2009-12:20
Haha my friend. In the meantime take Zaf's book, the UK one in there is mine. Reminds me to give a watchmaker in Bordeaux a call to send back the sample parts. I really need to get these missing parts re-produced by some skilled manufacturer. Ilja

Do you have a solution for

 
 By: amanico : May 28th, 2009-12:23
The special Deep Sea Alarm crowns, Ilja? I need 2 sets. Best, Nicolas PS: Yes I saw yours in Zaf's book.

it used to be easy...

 
 By: Ilja : May 28th, 2009-13:00
I just bought enough Deep Sea Alarm's until the original crowns for my personal were complete. The remainings got sold with a little premium to cover my expenses. But that's just how it went in the good old days. For the present I have no solution. Seriou... 

Le Sentier doesn't have crowns, anymore

 
 By: amanico : May 28th, 2009-13:16
It was my first idea, but sadly...they told me that they didn't have anymore DSA crowns in stock. As for the guy in Suburban Paris, I know 2. A guy whose watches are in Zaf's Book, or THE other one? As for Weems parts, I fear it is the same... Best, Nicol... 

...

 
 By: Ilja : May 28th, 2009-13:46
Me thinks we hijacked your very own thread. Well, as long the moderator is involved. JCB is the man for DSA bezels. I used to have some very similar crowns, I'll have a look tomorrow if 2 are left for you.

:) , as long as I'm involved

 
 By: amanico : May 28th, 2009-13:51
That would be great if you find these bloody crowns for me, Ilja... Thanks a lot, with anticipation! Best, Nicolas

Can't believe it, Bretta

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:49
Even if this doesn't surprise me a lot, as I saw so many " arrangements " with History... As for the Cal 450, not the finer, if you consider the Cal on the Mark 11 which is much nicer. But not ugly at all! As for the Weems case, see Ilja post, this man is... 

"But, if we have to talk about the very first wrist watch conceived for Pilots"

 
 By: ajlc : May 26th, 2009-16:35
Wouldn't that be the original Cartier Santos? OK, "pilot" singular. My burning question there is -- did the original that Cartier made for M. Santos-Dumont in 1904 contain a Le Coultre movement? Anyone, anyone? I never found the answer. If so, JLC really ... 

I meant among the JLC watches, ajlc

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:52
Because I know anotehr one which was anterior to the JLC Weems, the Omega from 1938. As for the Cartier Santos, can't tell you, my friend, as I know very few things about this brand. Best, Nicolas

cheers

 
 By: ajlc : May 28th, 2009-10:30
you have found a beautiful watch. another review coming?

Yes, Xavier, but

 
 By: amanico : May 28th, 2009-11:34
You will have to be a bit patient, as it takes time... Best, Nicolas

thanks very much Nico for another great post...

 
 By: FanFrancisco : May 26th, 2009-20:56
hi Nico, after reading your post, i have very simple questions in mind are that any relation of this JLC Mark VII and IWC Mark VII? why so intersting they both have the same model name? or why they named Mark VII? any special meaing behind? sorry if there... 

I have to confess that I know quite nothing about the IWC Mark V II, Stefan

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:54
Any pics to help me a bit? Best, Nicolas

So cool; great report

 
 By: Geo : May 26th, 2009-23:06
A watch wit character. The Weems and the Lindbergh are such a fantastic watches. Strange enough the re issues never made it, evn the earlier ones with the handwound pocket movement, were never a success. Geo

Well, Geo

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-13:55
Longines made a recent Re Edition of the Weems, in the 90ies. Not JLC. Let's hope that one day... Best, and thanks for the nice words! Nicolas

i had the Wittnauer weems. a civilian US version of the Longines

 
 By: G99 : May 27th, 2009-15:24
very small, but interestingly had the patent number on the dial and the bezel lock at 2 oclock. pilots watches seem to have been the main backbone of my military collection and i cant figure out why. possibly its because pilots and observors need watches,...  

Thanks for the pic of this Wittnauer, Graham

 
 By: amanico : May 27th, 2009-21:37
Strangely, this one is very close to the JLC, except the crown for the bezel which is located at 2 on the Longines, and at 4 on the JLC. Due to the thin bezel, and to the fact that the Longines is maybe 1 mm less big than the JLC, the difference is obviou... 

your quite right, military collecting...

 
 By: G99 : May 28th, 2009-00:55
your quite right, military collecting is easy for the first 50 then you get into having to look hard for the rarer pieces which, as you say, cost the earth. they are no longer the hidden unknowns that they were a number of years ago. virtually every selle... 

I am green

 
 By: flamenco : May 28th, 2009-03:39
What Heritage..... wish me had one meself now ,

Be careful, Flamenco

 
 By: amanico : May 28th, 2009-03:44
You're turning Vintage... But you're right, this is a great piece to add in a collection. The only problem is to find one... The bird is pretty rare. Best, Nicolas

Thank you, George. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : June 29th, 2012-23:20