JLC Mark 11, the Review

Apr 07, 2009,14:17 PM
 

We don't often speak about this nice Vintage Watch, and we are wrong!

Not only this watch is very nice and has a lot of charm, but it was also, and most important, a true tool watch, very well conceived, with a nice movement.

I /Some historical datas:

The Mark 11 is the 3rd Military Pilot watch produced by JLC.

In 1940 ( till 1943 ), JLC first released a lovely Pilot Watch, the Mark VII so called Weems because of its special crown at " 4 " which is used to control the graduated bezel:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Then, from 43, we saw the Mark VII without this dedicated crown ( Credit pic: Zaf Basha ):

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

We had to wait till 1948 / 1949 to see the birth of the Mark 11.

Under the Mark Reference, you have in fact 2 watches:

The one made for the R.A.F:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

The 2d, for the R.A.A.F:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

From 1949 to 1953, JLC made 2950 Mark 11, 2000 for the Royal Air Force, 950 for the Royal Australian Air Force.

These are the 3 Pilot Watches ever made by JLC, the so called Mark 10, in fact " Wrist Watch Waterproof " being a Military watch, of course, but for infantry.

The Mark 11 can be seen as an improved version of the Mark VII, build and conceived under severe specifications like a reliable and accurate movement ( Cal 488SBr ) with an hacking second, housed in a waterproof and anti magnetic case.

2/ The Watch(es).

The RAF and RAAF Mark XI are very similar watches.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

A / The Common points ( Case, dial, hands, soft iron dust cover, and big crown )

- The case has a 35 mm diameter, which may look small, but the watch is thick.

The RAF:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

The RAAF:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

This special volume is true part of this watch, giving it a strong " allure " and a big presence, once the surprise of the small size gone.

- The dial is the same, too, even if on Marv's RAF and on mine, they are different, but these 2 dials existed on both watches.

RAF:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

RAAF:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

In both cases, the same black dial texture, which superbly contrasts with the white numbers all around the dial ,and these small touches of radium for the quarter indexes and luminous hands.

- The following hands can be found on the RAF and the RAAF:

Square hour hand like on mine, or index hour hands like on the RAF, or even Cathedral hands:

Here the square hour hand, and the index hour hand:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

There, the Cathedral hands ( Credit pic : Zaf Basha ):

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

- The soft iron dust cover, which protects the movement not only against the dust, but also against the magnetic fields invading the cockpits.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

- The big crown:

At the contrary of the Mark VII Weems which has an additional crown at " 4 " to sychronize the timing, the Mark XI has an hacking second, and, hence, needs only one crown, and a big one, to be easily used when Pilots wear their gloves.

Here, a pic which helps to appreciate the size of the crown, related to the volume of the case.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Esthetically speaking, this big crown adds some strenght to this watch, indeed, as it is perfectly integrated to the case, and to the whole volume of the watch.

B/ The question of the lugs and bars, the plexys, the engravings on the case back, and the movement:

Here, we're speaking about the differences between the RAF and RAAF Mark 11.

- While the RAF Mark 11 only come with fixed lug bars, the RAAF may also come with lug bars which have been drilled out.

The fixed lug bars on the RAF Mark 11:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

RAAF Mark 11:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

- As for the Crystals, the rule is simple:

All the Mark 11 came with a domed plexy, but on some RAAF, you can see some " chimney " shaped plexys.

The domed plexy is nicely integrated to the bezel:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

While the " chimney " plexy is a bit more ...Brutal, but not less pleasant, and presents the interest of a less important distorsion when reading the hour:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

- The engravings on the case back are specific to each of the Mark 11.

The RAF comes with this engraving:

From the top:

the Arrow, then, the6B / 346, then the serial number on the year of release ( 48 or 49 ), as shown below:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

On the RAAF, things are really different, as you first have the G6B / 346, then RA cut by the arrow, then AF, and the serial number on the year of release ( 53 ) ( don't know who to credit for this last pic ).

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

- The movement:

The Cal 488 SBr is the same for the 2 versions of the Mark 11.

As explained on Zaf Basha's book, the hairspring is made of Nivarox alloy, and the balance wheel is made of glucydur alloy, to improve the resistance to magnetic fields.

This is a very interesting movement, as it fills the link between the Cal 470 used in the Mark VII, and the Cal P 478 BWSbr used in the legendary Géophysic.

It is quite nicely finished, as you can see below:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Or here, with this superb Close up from Steve G:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Here again the difference between the RAF and the RAAF is in the writing. as most of the RAF comes with " Swiss Jaeger Lecoultre", while all the RAAF come with " Fab Suisse SWISS Jaeger Lecoultre ", as shown on the 2 pics above.

So, these Pilot watches are true Treasures, as they were the beginning of a fantastic Trilogy " Air / Earth / Sea ".

The only sad thing is that after a big decade of existence, JLC didn't made these Pilot watches anymore.

Sad, and strange, as if we see the JLC story, we can notice that the History is an eternal repetition or hommage to the Past.

But these Pilot watches were not re edited at all, and didn't receive any hommage in the modern production, at thecontrary of the Geomatic, the Memovox, or the Divers.

They are the " missing link ", indeed.

But that's also part of their interest, of their ..Legend.

Best,

Nicolas PS: Huge thanks to Zaf Basha, the Heritage Gallery, and to the dedicated website to the Mark 11. This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-07 14:20:22 This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-08 06:02:56 This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-14 05:50:42


More posts: Jaeger LeCoultreMemovox

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

Hey, Foullis

 
 By: amanico : April 8th, 2009-23:42
Did you never consider getting one for your collection, you, the King of the Vintage JLC? Thanks for your nice words, my friend. Best, Nicolas

A nice true tool watch...

 
 By: E.J. : April 7th, 2009-14:38
with a great Histoy behind. Nice review, like always, my friend. this one must be see in the flesh . Thanks for your great work. best emilio PS: not only with diver watches lives da man

Agree, Emilio, Pilot watches are also very tempting

 
 By: amanico : April 8th, 2009-23:45
But I try my best to not think too much about them... Seriously, when you see some of the Vintage Pilot Watches, you can't resist. JLC released some very nice pieces, IWC, Longines, Omega too. Like the Diving watches, Pilot watches are really fascinating,... 

Love the Mark VII but...

 
 By: AT : April 7th, 2009-17:06
Is it just me or IWC big pilot watch was inspired by the mark 11, with the rivet and all?

Well, AT

 
 By: amanico : April 8th, 2009-23:53
At the same period, you had several Pilot watches like the B. UHR Lange, IWC, LACO, and some other which were Military watches used during the WW II. In the very first years of the 40ies, JLC released the Mark VII Weems, while Longines did the same. In fa... 

got it thanks for the clarification

 
 By: AT : April 9th, 2009-09:14
you're right I meant the XI

Great Post..RAAF

 
 By: BDLJ : April 7th, 2009-18:27
Nice to see those Navigator's watches, especially with the cases not polished. I've handled a couple of RAAF JLCs, as you said, these had Cathedral hands and the more domed (rather than "chimney" crystal. My guess for these particular watches, is that the... 

Would love to add a " WWW " JLC, BDLJ

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-12:49
It would be terrific to add one in my collection. The Cathedral hands and he small second of the WWW are so tempting. Even if much less rare than the Mark XI, this is another interesting watch, loaded in History, too. You handled them and you let them go?... 

The WWW JLCs

 
 By: BDLJ : April 9th, 2009-20:09
...have a chromed case, the pilot/navigator watches are much nicer. And yes, I had to let them go, not only did he own those watches...he owns several guns! ;-)

Very interesting

 
 By: Asimut : April 7th, 2009-19:32
thanks bijo for posting that. JLC's past is always full of surprises! Cheers, Asi

The (re) discover is a charming surprise, Bijo.

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-12:52
What a presnece on the wrist! Best, my friend. Nicolas...  

This is an interesting post, Nicolas

 
 By: dxboon : April 7th, 2009-21:38
Does the JLC Weems watch have any connection to Lt. Commander Philip Van Horn Weems, who collaborated with Longines on their Weems watch? The Longines Weems from the 30s (I think) seems to have a somewhat similar look. I particularly like how you pointed ... 

in the 40's Jaeger-LeCoultre, Vacheron&Constantin

 
 By: PoyFR : April 7th, 2009-22:12
and Wittnauer Watch Co (later known as Longines-Wittnauer Watch Co, ) were tied together. Jaeger 'subcontracted' its wristwatches sales to Vacheron which was owned by Longines-Wittnauer Watch Co. This could be a start explaining us why some Longines, Jaeg... 

Thanks, PoyFR!

 
 By: dxboon : April 7th, 2009-23:39
You've provided some important historical context for me! The connection between the companies during this time period could certainly explain the similarities between the watches! Thanks for the enlightenment! Daos

Correct about Philip Van Horn Weems, Daos.

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-13:31
The Longines Weems is even a bit smaller ( 32 mm ), but soon you'll be able to read all about the Mark VII Weems, as I'm finishing the review about this other very interesting watch. As POY pointed out, there were some connections between Lecoultre, Longi... 

This is a very interesting Topic, many thanks for this introduction

 
 By: PoyFR : April 7th, 2009-22:29
Most of the major horology brands have some relation with Military services, often leading to improve and secure wearability for specifics usages. Most of the times with find those improvements to benefit the civilians market for technical values or for t... 

From you, POY, this is a very nice compliment

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-13:37
Much appreciated, Panerai Guru! We can generalize what you said on all the Vintage watches, my friend. The more you lear, the less you know, hence the more you want to discover. Hopefully, I will be albe to post soon another post about another very intere... 

Strange bird, full of airforce history

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : April 8th, 2009-02:20
the dials of watches speaks more than 100 words Thank you for sharing Best Damian

A strong and nice example of Tool Watches, indeed, Damian

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-13:40
A watch you have to feel in your hands to get all its strength and Beauty... Best, my friend; Nicolas

Thank you very much Nicolas

 
 By: Dje : April 8th, 2009-02:36
Hi Nicolas, I've been waiting for this review for a while knowing that you were preparing it! Fantastic watcehs so nicely brought up there! As the Geophysic is quite unprobable as an encounter, this mkXI is my next target! This is indeed a dream watch! Th... 

You're more than right, Jerome, to compare the Geophysic to the Mark XI

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-13:56
The concept is very close ( tool watch, but civilian in the case of the Geophysic ), and as I said, the movement of the Mark XI is enhanced in the Geophysic. The Geophysic is slightly bigger ( 36 mm ), but the overall look is very close, except the color ... 

Thank you for this nice review!

 
 By: Marv : April 8th, 2009-04:16
Nicolas, you have managed to take beautiful photos of these 2 pilot watches (which is not easy, I have experienced it without success). Congratulations! With this pair of Mark11, you covered most of the sprectrum of the different configurations this model... 

Thanks a lot to you, Marv

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-14:00
And you know why! The funny thing is that I saw in some Dealers Window shops this Mark XI. I also see it at the Heritage Gallery. But I tried it very recently, and I was on to pass on it. Till you left me play with yours for some days, and that it was cle... 

Thank you Nicolas...

 
 By: nwp627 : April 8th, 2009-07:26
...is it alright to call tool watches, especially military tool, watches beautiful? These photos certainly bring out that beauty. N

Good question, Neil

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-14:05
A Tool watch is very often compatible with Beauty, my friend. This one is a perfect example, the FF is another one, like the Panerais Vintage, and some Rolex. This one is a bit a paradox: Small but strong at the same time. A delicious paradox! Best, Nicol... 

This is maybe the watch...

 
 By: patronaget : April 8th, 2009-09:00
that brought me into watches in the first place. It was in the book "All tomorrows parties" by William Gibson, that the watch dealer Fontaine stumbled upon a street-boy who mysteriously owned a watch just like this one. I'm not sure about the exact ref nu... 

Wow, Christian, another nice story to add to the Mark XI Credit!

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-14:09
Thanks for the info about the book, my friend; Will see how I can grab it. This one is certainly a good introduction to JLC watches: Nice, reliable, and very pleasant to wear. Thanks for the nice words! Best, Nicolas

This is the first JLC watch that I'm giving serious thought . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 8th, 2009-09:18
. . . to acquiring, Nicolas . . . it has a vivid presence that comes across thru the photos you've presented us today. Do you think there's any chance JLC will produce a modern version that replicates the original design faithfully? Cordially, Art

Aaah, Art, this is one of my hottest wishes

 
 By: amanico : April 9th, 2009-14:12
The only problem for a re edition is that this watch is a bit too small, compared to our modern standarts, with its 35 mm. BUT, I would see an hommage to this watch, more than a re edition, with a very faithful dial, but a it bigger, let's say 40 mm. My h... 

I would hope that there's room for a faithful re-issue in 35 mm as well . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 10th, 2009-09:50
. . . as an hommage in 40 mm, Nicolas, but I suspect you're right . . . perhaps a special Purists edition is in order ;-) . . . cordially, Art

A Purist Mark 11... That's a brilliant idea, Art!

 
 By: amanico : April 11th, 2009-03:35
Would love that!!! To be followed. Best, Nicolas

A continued journey in education us all Nicolas!

 
 By: matrix : April 8th, 2009-12:05
I truly appreciate it. This is a great time keeper. I know that it is against our rules to speak of prices, etc. But what would be a price range for a nicely kept vintage like the JLC Mark 11?! B well my friend, Matrix.

Mark Re-issue?

 
 By: iwcfan2 : April 8th, 2009-19:35
Thanks for the always informative post Nicolas. Now, what are the chances JLC will revive its pilot history? Given that the Polaris came back, how about the Marks? Best, Ryan

Chances are quite close to 0, Ryan

 
 By: amanico : April 11th, 2009-04:28
As a Re Edition means a 100% replica of the watch. How many people will be interested by a watch which diameter is only 35mm? Except the True Mark 11 Lovers? But an Hommage, why not? Who knows? Thanks for your nice words, Ryan. Best, Nicolas

You forgot the Mark 9... only joking ;-)

 
 By: Bretta : April 9th, 2009-07:30
Only joking, Nicolas. My JLC is considered to be a Mark 9 pilot's watch, but of course it is not a true JLC. It started its life as a mark 7 and was unfortunately recased, redialed and the beautiful blue steel hands painted in tritium by the MOD in 1956. ...  

Wow, Bretta... Impressive.

 
 By: amanico : April 11th, 2009-04:29
What an impressive work! Thanks for your nice words, my friend. Best, Nicolas

Great post!

 
 By: 1440 : April 9th, 2009-09:30
After having serviced a number of WWII era military watches, I am drawn to them more and more. Thanks for this great post looking at a wonderful JLC! Cheers, Al

A strong appeal, indeed, Al

 
 By: amanico : April 11th, 2009-04:31
These watches are lovely beaters, indeed. A lot of charm, strenght, personality, too. That's why we love the Vintage, don't you think so? Thanks for your input and nice words, Al. Best, Nicolas

Just love those military watches

 
 By: Starman : April 9th, 2009-14:34
Definitely want a pilot watch one day. Options are GHO or IWC, but sadly not JLC anymore. You are right, this is a missing link. JLC provided their movements to the IWC pilots didn't they? Later on they changed to ETA movements. Always a pleasure to see t... 

Not sure at all that JLC shares their caliber with the Mark 11 IWC, Starman

 
 By: amanico : April 11th, 2009-04:35
I will check but I don't think so. As for the missing link between present and past, I really wish that one day, it will re appear... I'd like to make a Trilogy " Air / Earth / Sea "! Best, my friend. Nicolas

You are right; it was the Mark XII

 
 By: Starman : April 11th, 2009-08:24
Well Nicolas, I looked it up; JLC provided the automatic Calibre 884 (diameter 26mm, 3,25 mm high with a frequency of 28800 and 45 hours power reserve) for the Mark XII after that it was ETA for the XV. According to my information this calibre was more ro... 

great and informative review, much thanks Nic. [nt]

 
 By: FanFrancisco : April 11th, 2009-20:47
No message body

Do you really expect me to read this post ?

 
 By: bimbeano : April 12th, 2009-12:15
Nicolas ... my poor brain has just come out of a little holiday ... so i just looked at the pics ... i love that RAAF .... if your house gets to small you can always leave some watches at my place ... Thanks for the very nice post (which i will read one o... 

Nothing better than a long review when you come back home, Filip

 
 By: amanico : April 12th, 2009-12:18
Thanks for your nice words, my friend. You become lazy, obviously. Aaah, you already were lazy? )) Best, my friend. Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2009-04-12 12:24:18

I have always been ...

 
 By: bimbeano : April 12th, 2009-12:28
... VERY lazy ..... LOLOLOL .... okay, i will gather all my UNlazyness and read the post .... you win Nicolas ... but only this time ... !!! El Bimba

THANKS

 
 By: pocket : April 13th, 2009-05:24
thanks for share~!~!~!~!~!~!

Wow great review !

 
 By: DrStrong : April 15th, 2009-05:50
you have made me discover this very nice piece with a great history and a terrific look ! Thanks for the very informative and nicely illustrated post, once again. Cheers Jeff

Thanks, Jeff

 
 By: amanico : April 15th, 2009-12:54
A small, but terrific piece of History and Horology, at the same time! Happy to know that you had pleasure to read it. See you soon! Nicolas

A two year delay.. But what what a pleasure to read about the Mark 11 now !

 
 By: hs111 : May 12th, 2011-21:41
Well, I have to say, that when I endulge in new topics - such as the JLC Military watches, I always first follow the other links, if there are some nested ones. So, after 2 yrs after your great review about the Mark 11 ( RAF and RAAF), luckiliy you kindly...